Ever feel like people are placing you in a box? Ada and Dubbs definitely did. Ada nearly had a panic attack due to wearing a dress at a Christmas concert, compelling them to take a step back and reevaluate their gender altogether. Meanwhile, Dubbs’s realization that they were genderqueer came out of a lipstick lesbian awareness party where they realized they enjoyed the company of the women but didn’t personally identify with them. Their unique experiences drew them to the same conclusion - that identity is fluid and only you can define yourself. Dubbs joins Phil and Alex as a guest on this episode where the three engage is a conversation about why people feel the need to put others in boxes, why people should do what’s empowering for them, and was cis people can do to demonstrate true allyship with nonbinary and genderqueer folk.
Phil: Hey, this is Phil, AKA Corrine.
Alex: And I'm Alex Berg, and you're listening to
Phil and Alex: The I'm From Driftwood Podcast.
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On today's show, we're talking about nonbinary voices.
Alex: If I sound different than I normally do, it's because I'm having some technical issues with my mic, but we are going to forge ahead with this conversation.
Phil: And the first story we're going to talk about is Ada.
Ada: When I was in seventh grade, I had this Latin teacher. She had been my Latin teacher a year before, and she was also my advisor this year. And I was going to her office for help with Latin, because I was really struggling with it. And I eventually pulled my grade up quite a bit by going to her office almost every other day, and seeking the help that I needed. And she really worked with me, and she was really patient.
One of those times in the middle of seventh grade, when I was in her office, I started feeling kind of flushed while I was talking to her, and kind of intense and awkward, and I didn't really know what to say anymore. And I realized, I have a crush on her. First, I realized I was gay, a little after realizing I had that extensive of a crush on my Latin teacher. Then I started realizing maybe I'm bisexual or pansexual, because I feel like I'm attracted to men too. And I don't really know what's going on with that, or how to really identify that. And then as I got older and became a more sexual person, I started just noticing people of all types of genders.
Fast forward to sophomore year in high school, we were performing at a Christmas chapel in this little place four blocks away from my school, this little church. And I started feeling really uncomfortable in the dress that I was wearing. I started feeling like it was really tight, and it was really clinging to me. And the dress actually fit me fine, up to this point it fit me fine, and there was no problem. So I realized that I was basically having a panic attack, and so went to the ladies' bathroom downstairs in the basement, and I just unzipped my dress a little bit, and I calmed down. I tried to calm myself, and I tried to talk myself down and breathe in and out. But I was feeling really confused about my feelings, because it felt like not only did I not want to be in the dress, I also didn't really want to be in my body really that much. I kind of just wanted things to change about me, that I'd never really fully wanted to change before.
When I got home that night, I started Googling these terms. I started Googling, like I literally put in Google, "Not a boy, not a girl. Why do I feel like this?" Or I kind of knew what transgender meant, and I had heard nonbinary before, so I started Googling nonbinary people, and if you feel you're nonbinary, what to do. And I saw these stories, I saw these stories, and this terminology that was pretty new to me. It was really great for me that that other people were sharing their experiences, and that I had a notion of what nonbinary meant, and what gender fluid event.
And so, I started feeling like okay, yeah, I'm fluid. To this day, I don't really have a label for who I am. I just feel masculine some days, I feel more fem other days. I use they, them pronouns now and I have for a little bit. Now in my junior year of college, I am nonbinary, and I call myself gender fluid and I am gender fluid. But I don't always call myself gender fluid, I don't always stick to one thing with myself. And I think it's really important, if you're constantly questioning, you can be constantly questioning. You can be on a spectrum, you can be at three different points on the spectrum. Or just traveling around and you're just like, "I don't know, I'm on the spectrum. Yay!" It's fine. And I think it's important for people to know that, to know that they don't have to own up to one label or be one thing, no matter the pressure they get to do that.
Phil: I loved the story, because I loved that Ada doesn't feel the need to adopt a label. And I think we're in a time right now where we have a lot of terms, we have a lot of identities, and I think people should obviously have the right to decide to identify or not identify. And I know that's weird for some people, that's confusing for some people, but I prefer to take people at their word. Tell me what you'd like me to call you, tell me what your pronouns are. Tell me, if you decide you don't want to identify as anything, that's fine. I want to know what it is you want. And I want to follow that, and respect your wishes in that way. What do you think about that, Alex?
Alex: I'm completely with you. I feel like the question of labeling, on the one hand, sometimes labels have utility in terms of being able to convey yourself to the rest of the world. But I think really, I aspire to a world where everyone does just get to be themself at the end of the day. So, I'm with you when you say that you want to ask people how they want to be seen in this world, and accept them as they are in that way.
So, absolutely. I enjoyed this story, just the different narrative beats of it, going from this interaction with the teacher, to then wearing a dress and feeling uncomfortable, to then being able to Google different labels. And also living in this place where as an individual, you're fluid, and you don't have to ascribe to a specific gender. It just makes me feel like, to still feel as though being fluid is I think a revolutionary act, just speaks to how our society is so invested in the gender binary, and just how intensely married to the gender binary the rest of our society and culture is. And that even, I think that sometimes that feeds into this intense hunger for outsiders to need to label queer, trans, fluid, nonbinary folks as well. I feel like a lot of times, it makes me think about how it's almost about the other person, and not about ourselves as LGBTQIA+ plus people. It's about somebody else's comfort, and not our own comfort living with the ambiguities.
Phil: I agree. And I think it's about trying to make sense of the world as you know it, and imposing that on someone else, right? It is about someone else. It's like, "If I can put you in this box, then I can understand you better." And I'm like, you can understand me in or out of the box. In both ways, you can understand me as a human. So we should really stop, we really should just cut that out.
Alex: Well, one of the other things that makes me think about, is just how we are presented with such limited options in terms of gender identity and sexual orientation from the jump, that it can often take us time to figure out where we fit and how we even want to recognize our own identities. And this makes me think about our other story from, Dubbs Weinblatt.
Dubbs: When I was 20 years old, back when I was at Ohio State, I had been having a lot of trouble with drinking. I was drinking all the time, and when I would drink I would get really depressed, and really sad, and a lot of times really angry. And my friends always had to deal with me in all those different emotions. And there was one evening when I was drinking alone, Natty Light in my room, my roommate and best friend came in and she basically gave me an ultimatum. And she was like, "You're my best friend and I love you, but I can't keep dealing with you and your drinking, because I have to take care of you every time you're drinking, which is all the time. And really, I love you and I care about you, but I need you to tell me what's going on, because something obviously is going on."
And this was my moment of truth. I had always known that I was gay, since my first thought of knowing anything. And I kept it a secret for 20 years, and this was my moment. And so, I couldn't verbally say what I wanted to say, so I took a post-it and I wrote, "I'm bi," on it. And I handed it to her, and she literally just looked at it and she's like, "That's it?" And I burst out crying, and 20 years of pent up fear and sadness, and any emotion you can think of just came pouring out. And I cried for, I don't even know how long, and she held me.
And in my head, I thought that everything after that was going to be solved. I'm gay, I knew I was gay, I just couldn't tell anyone. But that's not really what happened. I continued drinking, and stayed in a depressed state. And I just thought maybe that was the baseline of who I was. 10 years later when I was in New York City, one of my friends from Columbus, Ohio was playing at a party. And it turns out that the party was during Pride week, and it was a lipstick lesbian awareness party in the Lower East Side. And my first thought is like, awesome. I'm going to see all these hot fem girls, and I'm going to be in heaven. I went to this party with the same best friend I came out with on a post-it.
So I'm looking around, and I see all these feminine women and it's a beautiful sight. And then I realize that not only am I not a lesbian, but I'm realizing that I'm attracted to women, but that I don't necessarily identify as a woman. And it was as if this glass box that had all the gender identity notions, had shattered right then and there, at the bar, while my friend was playing the music. And it got silent and I was like, wow, my life is not what I thought it was. And I started realizing that I didn't identify with my name, and I didn't identify with parts of my body, and I didn't identify with pronouns, and I didn't identify with everything that I had been raised with needing to be who I was. Because that just wasn't who I was.
And so, it was very mind boggling for me to realize that there was something so big and so deep that I was dealing with, that I had no idea was even going on in my head. So, once I had the epiphany at the party, I decided to talk to my family and friends about it, and read articles and books. My drinking still didn't get any better, even though I had still been exploring and discovering things about myself. And then about two years later, I started seeing an LGBTQ specialist, who got me right on track of where I needed to be. And it wasn't until I found a surgeon and made my first consultation, I finally realized that I was able to have my drinking under control. Because even after coming out as genderqueer and talking about it, there still was something off about how I was able to control myself. And it wasn't until I really took control over how I was feeling, and what I needed to be healthy.
I think a lot of people have the idea that you have to be male or female, and that there's no middle, but you don't have to stick to one or the other. And I think that it's important for me, especially because I have had top surgery now, and don't identify as trans, that I just am me. And so, I want other people to know that it's okay to be them, no matter what combination of label, or surgery or identification that they have.
Alex: This story just made me think about how we are having to go through these processes on our own, and almost just figure it out for ourselves, because the only thing that we know is there is one possibility. Which is maybe if you're having these feelings where you're like, "I don't align with the options that are presented to me, then maybe it must be because I'm bi, or gay, or queer." And it's like, you're almost having to go on this journey of self discovery, and just to find the resources that might help guide you.
Phil: Yeah, very true, very true. There was a quote that I wrote down from the story, that I really love. And Dubbs says, "It was as if a glass box that had all the gender identity notions, shattered." And that was, I think that was something they said, after they realized being at the party, that they were attracted to all these hot women and all these fem women, but they were like, "But I am not one of these women." And it was just like, I love that. Because it was like, that was a moment of clarity, of, "Wait a minute. All of this that was constructed in my mind, none of this is a real thing for me. This is not a real thing for me, and I want to break out of it, and I want to understand broader definitions of what it means to be me, and how I identify." I just love that.
Alex: Yeah, I love the idea of having a glass box of gender to break. If this is a literal box, I would like to break it myself. Can we just throw it over a cliff? What can we do to destroy it? I'm totally here for that. Yeah, I think that, gosh, it makes me think I've had so many... That resonates with me, because there are so many moments, I feel like, where understanding the people around me, and how they were identifying, ended up impacting my own conception of self, or helps you connect the dots about yourself. Sometimes you have to meet somebody who you're like, "Whatever you are, I'm you," you know? I get that.
Phil: Yeah. It speaks to why we talk about visibility all the time. This is why people need to see that representation. And sometimes they will look at it and say, "Wait a minute. I think that's me, I think that's me." That's why that is so very important. And with that, we have Dubbs back with us. And I can't wait to jump into talking to Dubbs about their story, and expanding on what happened that day and what's going on now. So welcome back, Dubbs.
Dubbs: Thank you, thank you so much for having me again. This is such a treat.
Phil: So Dubbs, before we jump into your story, we want to know how you're doing right now.
Dubbs: Right now in this moment, I'm feeling really good. Today I'm 500 days sober, which is for me, as you alluded to earlier, I had a drinking problem. And that was, when I talk about it in the story I was 20, and that kind of didn't go away until last year when I took matters into my own hands. So celebrating, feeling really good about 500 days, because I never I thought that that was possible, so just holding onto that feeling today.
Phil: It's really great that we can catch up with you again, because so much time has passed. So you open up about being 20 years old, and having problems with drinking. And you were confronted by your friend, and you opened up about your sexuality. And I know that you talk about that being something that was on your mind for about 20 years. And I want to know what that moment was like, when you were finally able to release that and talk to your friend, and tell them about yourself. What did that feel like? What did that release feel like to you?
Dubbs: It was incredible. It was something that, you allude to, I had known just from the first moments of consciousness, knew that I was queer in all of the ways. But didn't have the language, the understanding, the safety or security, the visibility, the representation, all of that, in the Midwest in the eighties. And so, I kept it locked tight inside. That's what started my drinking in high school, was escape, and self harm, and just not caring about whether I lived or died, essentially. And I would be so careful about the things that I would say, because I was so terrified that I was going to out myself. Which actually feels counterintuitive of, you're getting so drunk, won't you accidentally? I was so drunk, and also so aware, that I don't know how I was able to do that, but I never accidentally did anything that would out myself.
So at the time, my close group of friends attended church in the... I was going to say 2020, that is not right, in the 2006, '7, '8? One of the presidential elections. Whatever it was, they voted for Bush instead of Kerry. And so in my mind, that meant you are going to be closed minded, and there was no room for anyone to have nuance, or to be voting just because that's what their parents did, or going to church because that's what their parents did, and that's what they grew up. It just was like, this is the definitive thing, how you're going to react.
And so, I was really scared to tell her. But it was basically like, there was an ultimatum of, "I'm not going to be your friend anymore, until you tell me what's going on." And so, I wrote on a post-it. And at that point I used the word bisexual, because up to that point I was dating, and physical with cisgender men. At that point, I had no idea about gender nuance at all. I say all of that, because I think a lot of times bisexuals get erased, and they get glossed over like their identity is not real. And that was not my intention when I wrote it on the post-it, I just want to be very clear of that. I think that that's what felt right in the moment.
And I think that also speaks to how our language evolves over time, and how our language for ourselves evolves over time, as we learn about ourselves, and also as we learn about new words. So it was the best release ever, because I think one of the things that's so scary about coming out to somebody ,is what their reaction is going to be. And I told her, and she literally just was like, "That's it?" And I was like, I had all this for 20 years, pent up terror, and one of my best people in the world was okay with it. And so, we both just cried for a long time, and she held me, and it was a very, very nice, big, incredible release and relief. And then it wasn't, because then I had to start. Then I was like, okay, well now I actually have to do this. Now that I've said it, now I have to live it. And those are two different things, of admitting to something, and then living in that truth.
And so, the comings out after that were challenging. Because also each person, I was like, how are you going to react? And now I actually have to date women, and that feels really terrifying, but also what I want to be doing, but also terrifying. So, it was quite a roller coaster.
Alex: What about your family? Did you end up having any conversations with them?
Dubbs: I do want to say that all of those friends that I was scared, about and voted for Bush and went to church, are all gay. So, I was the first to come out. I will say that my friend who I came out to, was actually secretly dating one of my friends from high school. It wasn't her time to come out, but I was like, well, that would have been nice to know. But anyway-
Alex: Seriously.
Dubbs: Right, right?
Alex: Yeah, yeah.
Dubbs: So, I grew up in a Jewish household, and we also didn't talk about politics. And so there was never really, there was never any intentional homophobic things, homophobic, transphobic things happening in my household. But what was happening, were jokes, or things that they didn't think were harmful, that I was making mental notes about. Or they would like say offhand comments, but it wasn't like, "Gay people are bad," I never heard that. But it was the nuanced of like, "Did you see..." Blah, blah, blah. Whatever, like the gossip. And so, that's what I clung onto.
And so, when I told my mom, she was like, "I just want you to be happy. I want you to be safe." And then she asked me invasive questions about sex, and I was like, "I'm literally never talking to you about this." And I made my mom tell my dad, and my dad was also very supportive. It's very similar to when I came out to them as trans, it's like, I'm gesturing widely, everyone who's listening, overall love and support, which is so lucky and I'm so grateful for that. But then it's like, when you get into the minutia of it, and the day to day and how do you actually talk about it, and live it, that's when there's hard conversations that I have to keep having.
Like my dad, it took him a handful of years to accept that I wasn't going to marry a nice Jewish boy. And the narrative that he had for me was not my own narrative, and he had to rewrite that for himself. And so, a lot of that kind of stuff.
Phil: You know, that just speaks to the coming out, and how coming out's a journey. There are parts of it, people think that it's about having that conversation, and letting someone know about their identity or their sexuality, and then that's the end of the story. And there's just so much more to it than that. There's there's the day to day, like you said, there's the minutia. So, it makes sense that your parents great at first, and then as you got into the weeds, you had to help them drive the car, so it didn't go off the road, because it happens.
Dubbs: Exactly, yeah.
Phil: That's only 10 years from the beginning of your story. You are at this fantastic party, which I wish I had been at this party, sounds like a fantastic party.
Alex: Me too, I'm like, who's throwing the lipstick lesbian awareness party this year?
Phil: Right, why wasn't I at the party? I want to be there.
Dubbs: Oh, it was so good.
Phil: I mean, it sounds great. And you were talking about how excited you were about the party, and you're going to see all these hot fem girls, and it's going to be like heaven for you. It wound up being a major epiphany for you about your own gender identity. And I want you to take us back to the party and what made you have that aha moment.
Dubbs: So, I get there and I'm just looking around. And A, I'm yes, in heaven, because I love lots of people. And I'm looking around, and I'm like, not only do I not belong here because I'm not a lipstick lesbian, it just was in succession of, there was such a like disconnect of me being in this space. And I was trying to reconcile in real time of... I'm imagining, I don't know for sure, but I'm sure I was wearing my army shorts. I was like, not that fems can't wear cargo shorts, they can. But in my binary narrative in my head, however long years ago, seven years ago, oh, I'm uncomfortable because I'm not a lipstick lesbian. Okay. Oh, I'm uncomfortable because I'm not a lesbian. I'm not a lesbian because I'm not a woman.
And it just was like, this is when the glass was shattering. It was like the binary boundary that I was stuck in, it literally cracked open. And also at that time, I had a messenger bag, my messenger bag across my chest. And for me, part of my journey was feeling disconnect and dysphoria around my chest. And so it was like, in that moment, I was like, I hate the way that my bag feels on my body. And it just all clicked, I really don't know. It was like magic, I just don't know how it happened.
And so, the same friend who I came out to 10 years earlier, is the same friend at this party with me. I turned to Dolce and I say, "Oh my God, I'm not a woman. I'm not a lesbian, I'm not a woman." And she's like, "Okay, great. What is that?" I was like, "I don't know. But here we are, this is true." And then I was like, "I hate my breasts," and she's like, "Okay." And I was like, "I hate my name," and she was like, "Okay." Which we actually had the same first name, so I was like, "No offense to you."
And then I just was like, it felt like euphoria. Because I had finally, I'm still trying to figure out the order of operations of like, did I know about genderqueer and nonbinary before this moment, like that those identities exist? Or did I come to it on my own and then find the words for it later? I don't actually know. Regardless, I knew for sure as hell I wasn't a woman, and that part is the most important piece. But then I would start to ask myself, well, am I a man? Because I knew binary transgender people existed, and I was like, is that me? And I just was like, I don't think so. But then where did that leave me?
And actually, I wrote something down when you were talking about Ada's story, about not feeling the need to adopt labels. And you both were talking about just let people self-identify, and how incredible it is to be fluid, and all of that is true. And I want to add a layer of nuance to it, of the power of labels, when you get to put it on for yourself. So it's like, once I learned the word genderqueer I was like, holy shit, that's me. And it was so empowering. It's almost like when we can own that process ourselves, then eventually for some people, that label might not matter as much because we've figured it out for ourselves.
And then for some people, people, those labels are incredibly empowering. I know a lot of binary trans people who cling very strongly to the word man or woman, because they have fought their fucking asses off to own their identity. And so, it's interesting of allowing folks to just do what's empowering for them, whether that's hold onto a label or not hold onto a label. And I know you've said that a little bit, but just adding there is power in it when we can do it for ourselves.
Alex: Amen, I wish that our listeners could see Phil and I just nodding so much, Phil is now clapping. Yes, exactly, I'm completely with you. And I just have such an appreciation for the layer that you added there of labels. I feel like I just want to live in a world where we have room for everyone to do whatever feels the most affirming to them at all times, no matter if they feel strongly about labels, or if they're figuring out the labels, all the things. One of the things you were talking about as well, was after you had this epiphany at the party, you spent time actually doing research, and reading articles and books. Was there anything in particular that was a great resource for you, or that you saw yourself in when you were in that period of time?
Dubbs: I feel like a downfall of mine, is I love asking for help, but when it comes to, this is going to get heady, but I think because I grew up struggling, that's how my brain is wired. I'm comfortable in the struggle, because that's how I was raised. And so, I probably could have done more to help myself both with alcohol, or with identity, but instead I did it the hard way, of not really researching as thoroughly as I could have, or not really talking to people as thoroughly as I could have, and instead just struggled on my own with it because that's where I felt comfortable. And I'm working on realizing that I'm not alone in any of these things, and just Google it, and you'll find a million things of whatever it is. But I think that's kind of where I was at that time.
Phil: Fair enough, that sounds good. Another part of your journey was seeing the LGBTQIA specialist. And I want to know that, are you a proponent of therapy now? Is that something that's ongoing for you?
Dubbs: Absolutely. I still see the same therapist all these years later. So, the moment that I, in that lipstick lesbian awareness party moment, I was in therapy and I upped it to twice a week. And I was like, let's just figure this out. So I guess, now I'm contradicting what I just said, but I did it. But he was a cis man in his sixties, and not to say that cis men in their sixties aren't educated on the LGBTQ community, that's not true. This particular person was not.
And so it actually was a struggle, which is actually maybe not contradictory then, because I was struggling with him, in getting him to understand what I was going through. And I was so new to it that I couldn't educate him on it, because I was like, I don't even know either what I'm talking about. And so, he did help me a lot, but one of my tipping points was when I told him that my name is Dubbs now, and he should call me Dubbs, when I walked into a session once, I looked over and saw his notepad, and he had my dead name written. And I confronted him, and I said, "Listen, I told you my name is Dubbs, and I see that you have my dead name written." And he's like, "Well, this is just for me. It doesn't matter." And I was like, "It does matter. It absolutely matters, because it's very clear you don't understand what we're talking about, if you have my dead name written, and then are going to engage in this conversation with me."
And so, I think at that point I had also been seeing my specialist therapist, because he was also helping me navigate to get top surgery. And so, I ended up terminating with the problematic therapist, and staying with my specialist. And yeah, therapy is so helpful, and it is so important when you have access to it. Not everyone has access, which is unfortunate. But it's so important to have someone who understands the nuance of identity, and understands you, and can affirm and base things in reality. I think a lot of times for trans people and nonbinary people, queer people, I know this term gets thrown around so much, but we are gaslit into thinking that we are overreacting, or we're too sensitive. And it's helpful to have a neutral person be like, "No, the way you're reacting makes sense. Because your reality's being denied," or, "Your inherent dignity is being questioned and challenged." And so, it's helpful. It's also helpful just to work things through with somebody.
Alex: I hear all of that. Well, in the story at the time you call yourself genderqueer, which is a term that sometimes overlaps with being nonbinary and sometimes has its own unique definition. What would you say is the main difference between the two? How do you see them overlapping, if you do? And then, how has your identity evolved since the video when you used that term?
Dubbs: Yeah. I still use genderqueer, I don't really ever use nonbinary for myself. There was a period of time when I would correct people when they said that I was nonbinary, because I was in that particular part of my journey, and now it doesn't bother me as much. And I think that just illustrates what I was saying earlier, it's like, now that I'm settled in who I am in this moment, having that particular term doesn't trigger anything in me. Because really, they mean the same thing, just one feels more affirming than other to me. I know lots of people who use both interchangeably, people who only use nonbinary, and not genderqueer. For me, it's simply genderqueer just feels better and feels more authentic.
And then to answer your question about where I am now, I do now use the word transgender. So when people ask, I say I'm a genderqueer trans person. What else has changed? I started testosterone last July, so July of 2020. And that also has been really an incredible journey. That was one of those things where, I think there is so much stigma attached to trans identities. And I was deathly afraid of being a trans person, because of all of the stigma, and all of the negative ways that trans people are treated. And I just was so afraid of being a trans person, that I was like, oh, I can be genderqueer and not a trans person. Which there are people who are that, if that word is not empowering to them. But I realized that the word transgender is empowering for me, and that I had to work through in therapy, moving past the stigma of it and owning it.
And the idea, I had been talking about testosterone in therapy for years, and then I stopped talking about it, and then I would talk about it, and I'd stop talking about it. And my therapist sent me this packet from the World Health Organization, about the effects of testosterone. And I remember I read through it, and I was like, "Nah, nah, nah, nah," I wasn't even being thoughtful about it. And I was like, "I don't need this," and just threw it away. I think I just deleted the email.
And it actually was during the pandemic when everything stopped, and as for so many people, things just got quiet and lots of people went inward and found things out about themselves. And testosterone kept coming up for me, and I was like, I can't keep shoving it down. Because it's obviously affecting me negatively, and so I need to figure this out. So, started talking about it again, and it coincided with me stopping drinking. And so, I think having that clarity and that space, then gave me the courage to start testosterone. Because if you listen to any interviews with me before July of last year, I was very adamantly someone who was like, "I'm not going to do testosterone. That's not for me. I can be a trans person without testosterone," and very, very firm on it. And then it's like, to all of our points, this whole conversation about fluidity, it's like I had to get there on my own, in my own time.
And some of the things that were scary for me was like facial hair, or my voice dropping. I was like, because that would be a very obvious change from what was pre-testosterone until into testosterone, if that makes sense. And I was scared to have to talk about it with people, or I was scared to have to field people's reactions to hearing a deeper voice or facial hair, you know what I mean? And not wanting to witness transphobic shit, I just was trying to protect myself. And then it's wild, because as my voice has been dropping and as my facial hair is coming in, it's like those are the two most empowering things that are happening for me. It's like, oh my God, I fucking love this. And so, it's just so interesting to me how it shifts, and how I made a complete 180, and it's wild how that shit happens.
Alex: With all of that said, in what ways would you like to see the LGBTQ+ community show up as a whole for genderqueer folks?
Dubbs: I think people who hold more power, so cis people in the community, if they aren't already modeling sharing their pronouns, I think that's a really, really important step for all folks to share their pronouns. Because it helps us normalize the practice, and it also takes out the assumption of you have to look certain way to use a certain set of pronouns. Advocating for more neutral language, like company-wide memos. Wherever we're seeing binary gender pop up, having people with cis privilege, use that privilege and say, "Hey, actually this isn't inclusive, this isn't encompassing of all people." Also talking about bathroom situations, and are there only a men's room and a women's room, and how can we advocate for all gender restrooms? Or thinking about, really just everything. Anywhere where it's binary, how do we create it so it's not exclusive of genderqueer, and nonbinary people? Those are the few things that are just coming to the top of my head.
Phil: Cool. So let's switch tracks a bit, and talk about your improv group and podcast called Thank You for Coming Out. You're the founder, and can you tell us a little bit about Thank You for Coming Out and its mission?
Dubbs: Yeah. I love that you asked me what the mission is, because I don't have a mission statement. I founded it in 2015 and I'm still trying to figure that out, but essentially the whole point of Thank You for Coming Out is to give a platform to LGBTQ people to share their stories, and for people to connect over those stories. And so, it started as an improv show where someone would share a coming out story, and then queer improvisers would bring that story to life using improv.
And for the storyteller, it's incredible. I've been a storyteller a few times over the years, and what I've feedback I've gotten from folks is, you talked about this earlier, of you don't just come out once and you're done. It's an ongoing process for a lot of people, and some of those are not the easiest moments in their lives. And so, sharing one of those stories on stage, and then seeing it brought to life with improv, which is comedy, is healing. And it helps people think about their story through a different framework, or laugh at something that maybe was painful in the past, and helps create different synapses around that pain.
It's also just fun to watch people make fun of... At least for me. We're not making fun of, we are lovingly poking at, and recreating. And through that, people are connecting and we're seeing, "Oh, I'm not alone in this, and I also felt that way," or, "This is the first time I'm seeing a trans person in public talk about top surgery," or whatever it might be. And so, it's a really great connector, and way to create visibility into identity. So, when I was approached to start the podcast by Schneps Media, I was like, "Well, I've never hosted a podcast, but sure, I love to talk," as we can attest to in this interview. It's exciting, because when I'm the interviewer, I very much try to not talk at all, or a lot. And so when the tables are turned, I'm like, I am taking up all the air time, so thank you for letting me do that.
So similarly, the podcast is to give a platform, give an opportunity for folks to share their stories. I always open it with like, "We all have multiple coming out, and coming into ourself stories, and can I hear one?" Because when I started, I was like, "Tell me your coming out story." And it's like, we all have many. So, it's just interesting how even that evolved over ,time of how I talk about that.
Phil: So as we wind down, are there any projects that you're doing that you want our listeners to know about? Anything that we should keep an eye on?
Dubbs: Well, definitely my podcast, Thank You for Coming Out. And we don't have any shows in the books now, but I would imagine we'll have some coming up. Other than that, not much right now. I've turned a lot of my focus to consulting and teaching, and less entertainment-y, like come watch this thing, kind of thing.
Alex: Well, if folks are interested in hitting you up for some consulting or they want to listen to the podcast, where can they find you on the internet and social media?
Dubbs: Yeah. So, you can go to dubbsweinblatt.com. You can go to thankyouforcomingout.com. You can follow me on Instagram, and it's at E-L-D-U-B-B-S, 12, Eldubbs12, and @thankyouforcomingout.
Phil: Awesome. Dubbs, this was a fantastic conversation. It was so nice speaking to you, great meeting you. I think people should definitely subscribe to your podcast, check it out. And I'm sure that they can't wait for you to bring those live shows back, because we want to be in queer spaces with each other again, hopefully soon. Vaccinated and together.
Alex: Yeah. Thank you so much, we want to go to your live show, so we'll have to stay posted.
Dubbs: Yes, amazing. Thank you both so much. And nice to meet both of you, and thanks for letting me talk so much.
Phil: It's our pleasure.
The I’m From Driftwood Podcast is hosted by Phil aka Corinne.
Alex: And Alex Berg, and is produced by Andy Egan-Thorpe. It’s recorded as a program of I’m From Driftwood, the LGBTQAI+ story archive.
Phil: Its mission is to send a life-saving message to queer and trans people everywhere: You are not alone.
Alex: I’m From Driftwood’s Founder and Executive Director is Nathan Manske. Its Program Director is Damien Middlefehldt.
Phil: Our score is provided by Elevate Audio.
Alex: The stories you heard today are available in their entirety, plus thousands more at imfromdriftwood.org.
Phil: You can also follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.
Alex: Or subscribe to our podcast wherever you get your podcasts.
Phil: This program is supported in part by public funds from the New York City Department of Cultural Affairs.
Alex: In partnership with the City Council.
Phil: Additional funding is provided by the Humanities New York Sharp Grant, with support from the National Endowment for the Humanities and the Federal American Rescue Plan Act.
Alex: Thanks for listening, y’all.